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Post by unknown on Mar 22, 2015 9:04:56 GMT -8
Character Name:
Yosuke,Garnet (both accounts were banned)
What you last did:
nothing out of the ordinary as far as i'm aware
Why do you think you got banned:
honestly i have no idea, maybe because the server's wonkey?
Why do you think you should be unbanned:
because as far as i'm aware I've done nothing ban worthy
Which GM banned you (optional):no idea
If this is all just a huge misunderstanding I apologize in advance
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Post by GeishaChan on Mar 22, 2015 10:06:00 GMT -8
Your accounts were banned due to you having two accounts that were not notified to the staff. As per the Terms and Conditions second accounts are okay, however it is required to seek permission from staff members before doing so, so that we may log the second accounts everywhere it needs to be logged.
Also, both accounts were gaining NX, which points to voting on both accounts.
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Post by unknown on Mar 22, 2015 10:15:17 GMT -8
I see I wasn't aware you had to notify the staff that's bad on me however i did only ever vote on the main account (the one Yosuke is on) all nx on the other account was gained from nx drops although i realize there's probably no way to prove that. Is there anything that can be done about this at this point or am i just out of luck?
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Post by GeishaChan on Mar 22, 2015 10:22:02 GMT -8
I will have to discuss this with the other staff. I need to find out if I am able to access actual voting records to see where the NX came from, however I looked at the accounts over a span of two days and the NX gained on both accounts was enough for both accounts to be voting.
I will look at this, though. As for the two accounts, it is stated in the Terms and Conditions, which you automatically agree to adhere to by creating an account and playing on the server, whether you decided to read them or not.
As stated previously, I will discuss this with everyone else. I will respond to this thread as soon as I have more information for you!
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Post by Will on Mar 22, 2015 10:24:31 GMT -8
GeishaChan i have been looking aroubd the forums for a bit and i cant seem to find the rule that states 2nd acc creation anymore..... ggggggg
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Post by Erwin on Mar 22, 2015 10:25:58 GMT -8
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Post by Will on Mar 22, 2015 10:27:06 GMT -8
Why is that on a seperate page o.o
Prob better on getting started rather than announcements since im sure some people have missed it since it isnt part of the terms looool xD
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Post by Erwin on Mar 22, 2015 10:34:45 GMT -8
But it is part of the terms. 1.6 and 1.9 as Ace even quoted on the thread.
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Post by Will on Mar 22, 2015 10:36:47 GMT -8
Erwin im talking about the creation of a 2nd account, not what you could do on said 2nd account o.o
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Post by Erwin on Mar 22, 2015 10:42:21 GMT -8
That seems pretty clear to me.
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Post by Will on Mar 22, 2015 10:49:26 GMT -8
....youre assuming too much if youre trying to connect that to creating 2nd accounts. In the old forums 2nd account creation was clearly stated, but then that rule along with many other rules disappeared when forums were moved. Creating 2nd accounts is not clearly stated in terms and conditions since you cant actually quote it.
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Post by Erwin on Mar 22, 2015 10:56:57 GMT -8
Well, no, but it's heavily implied.
That's directly from the terms of service, and sure, while you're technically correct in saying "it's not clearly stated in the terms and conditions," what you're saying is analogous to saying "The Bible never clearly states that God exists." Which it doesn't. But if you look at virtually every passage in that book, it's heavily implied that he exists.
When I see a statement like "if anything is unclear, as a member of the NobleStory Staff for clarification before taking action," that to me suggests the following process for creating a second account:
1. PM or talk to a staff member in game regarding your account.
2. Obtain approval from him/her and then create your account.
Which, as it turns out, is the correct procedure in creating a second account. I don't think I'm "assuming too much," as you put it, since I believe that any honest person with common sense who reads what the terms of service says should be able to connect the dots. The main issue it seems to me is that people simply aren't reading the terms of service. If unknown, cedric, ursus, and other had simply read the terms of service, specifically 1.6 and 1.9, then none would have gotten banned for vote abuse. This isn't an issue of obfuscated information. It's an issue of ignorance.
I do agree with you that the announcement on the procedure should probably be moved to "Getting Started" though. That seems like a more fitting place for it.
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Post by Will on Mar 22, 2015 11:02:34 GMT -8
....im not talking about 2nd account abuse for the 3rd time.......im talking about notifying gms to create a 2nd account which is in the wrong subsection. If you get banned for voting on ur second acc i dont really care since that is CLEARLY stated o.o
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Post by Erwin on Mar 22, 2015 11:10:50 GMT -8
Yes, and I'm also talking about notifying the GMs to create a second account. Look at what I wrote.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, I actually read the terms of service, and I understood that we're not allowed to create secondary accounts without first notifying the GMs. That seems to be what's heavily implied from 1.9. And what do you know, I'm not banned.
As it turns out, everyone who was banned for creating a second account got banned not simply by virtue of creating that account, but rather for vote abusing; so the two issues are linked. They are interdependent.
And again, I do agree that the whole thread about the procedure of second account creation should be moved to the "Getting Started" forum.
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Post by Will on Mar 22, 2015 11:17:59 GMT -8
Most servers allow self leeching and multiple accounts so I wouldn't put it past anyone if they assumed noble was the same. Ya know im trying to defend the guy on this matter.....and on that note GeishaChan i have around 7k nx on my alt just by drops but then again i have almost 100 times more on my main....cough |
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Post by unknown on Mar 22, 2015 11:44:54 GMT -8
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Post by Erwin on Mar 22, 2015 11:59:29 GMT -8
We're all human and make mistakes from time to time, and I understand wanting to defend Yosuke. I don't want him banned either and I believe in second chances.
However, this vote abuse thing has been quite the issue lately and I personally don't see why it should be the case, and I've been citing 1.9 of the terms and service to try to communicate why this is so. It isn't exactly explicit, but as I stated early, heavily implied. If this really is the source of contention, then I wholeheartedly agree that the post about making secondary accounts should definitely be moved to "Getting Started." Heck, I think that's a good move irrespective of Yosuke's situation.
From Yosuke's case, however, it seems that the main issue was vote abusing, rather than simply creating a second account, and in this case, it's clearly prohibited as per 1.6: "using more than one account to obtain NX Cash via Voting is not allowed." That is a bit harder for me to defend, so the last I'll say is that yeah, we're human and make mistakes from time to time, and I've misread/glossed over entire sections of text in the past, so I'd give Yosuke a second chance. I don't think he would intentionally try to game the system to get ahead. That's not the Yosuke that I know.
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Post by Will on Mar 22, 2015 12:10:17 GMT -8
Ummmm she never actually checked voting records, just stated there was nx on his 2nd account which is why i bothered commentung on since both can be mistaken. I wouldnt be surprised if there was nx if he had other chars he played on. Although if it was an irregular amount then that's just a shame.
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Post by Ace on Mar 22, 2015 12:39:01 GMT -8
The thread about instructions for how to create a second account on Noble-Story has been moved to the "getting started" section. Thank you for your suggestion; i hope this will help our future players to prevent any further misunderstandings. I appeal for not having a hot debate about what's right and what's wrong about this topic. The instructions have clearly been stated in the past, and i think a thread in the stickied announcement section is hard to overlook. But that's rather subjective. Problems like that wouldn't even be present if the old Staff would have properly notified everyone about changes in the ruleset. Will you can't tell what kind of research and checks GeishaChan and I have been doing in cases like this, so it's best to not try to assume anything. We are going to have a Staff-internal discussion about your ban appeal later on, Yosuke. Right now we have to focus on doing final fixes so that Noble-Story can be fully running again. We apologize for the inconvenience. |
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Post by Will on Mar 22, 2015 12:45:30 GMT -8
YESSIR OVERLORD Ace  |
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