Debate and Discuss: Planned Skill Changes

The lunchbox has been used as an event item twice before, fun fact. 

supermegahugecough

Nor should it, i don't really understand balancing the classes at all.


The balance is perfect right now, the only thing that could really balance balance them is removing the damage cap and allowing all classes to just to what they are going to do. (not that i'm even implying any class (except sniper or w/e) can hit the damage cap, just that if they do it's a pointless barrier.

Mages are the strongest clear's in the game, have the easiest time doing good damage at all levels(anyone can make a lukless mage and do strong damage from level 8 to lvl 200 mob wise) but they trade that off for being absolute garbage at bosses(single target damage)

Warriors have a strong aoe from level 10, allowing them to never have a very weak position, along with having strong damage if built correctly, massive base hp, the only drawback of warriors is by end game they don't have amazing boss clear's, yet they still become vital to bossing due to Hyper Body and seduce bait.

Archer's(bowmen) have a terrible first job (because they can't jump, and literally have to be at range to hit enemies, awell as having a poorly scalling damage formula) workable second job, and decent 3rb job plus+
This allows them to have tradeoffs, and they are never exceptional mob clearer's, and also REQUIRE hp washing to be able to boss effectively.
They trade off ineffective mob clear's and extremely tedious and hard lower level's for the '3rd' bess dps in the game, aswell as vital party skills.

Assasin's have an okay 1st job (if funded) and a meh 2cd and 3rd job, due to 2cd job still relying on double throw (single target damage) and 3rd job's aoe isn't very strong/useful .
They also semi-require hp washing in order to effectively boss, and have much more items to work around. They also have insane weapon attack scalling.
They trade the hardest 2cd job in the game, and arguably hardest 3rd job in the game for the '2cd' highest dps in the game.

The Bandit and the sniper are the retarded cousin's, as well as the pally. They excell at a few small areas, but they're tradeoffs are the worst. The pally isn't sooooo bad as people make it out to be, and the bandit and sniper both have valuable functions when people aren't running around with perfect gear.
If we compare mediumly funded people, sniper's can actually compete with bowmen, and bandit's trade a hard Edit: 2cd/1st job for a great 4th job mobbing and bossing skill.  They never really compare in dps when we actually go into the funded ranges, but they aren't obsolete. 
And some classes DO need to be worse than others, at something. Basically the each retard cousin of the group either speciallizes in mob (bandit/pally) by 4th job, or specializes in easier dps (sniper).

Now for the wierdos, the pirates. The gunman is the most broken 'op' nerf now class in the game. She trades off only having small hp, for having a decent 1st job, good 2cd job, very strong 3rd and fourth jobs, as well as having the highest dps in the game, assuming we aren't literally talking about near god like equipment from an assasin/bowmaster. However, almost no one recognizes just how strong battleship.
The only thing they don't get is crits, which saves them from literally being the strongest no matter what.
It'd even be reasonable too, if they just didn't have such amazing mobing skills for literally ever. 4th job even get's a mage ultimate, WHAT?! why?

And then the brawler, in this erver, ends up being the retard cousin.
The only thing that needs changing about him, is fixing his skills. The brawler serverd a very important function in the real server's, and it all came down to the skill that increased attack speed.
That skill STACK'd ontop of regular boosters, so it took  a normal weapon and made it very fast,(given that the normal weapon was the lowest normal type you can have) 
The brawler also had very cool skills at all jobs, and good mobing/clear, as well as had to do much much less hp washing.

Unfortunate stae of affairs however that some of the key damage upgrades the brawler has don't work, and the thing that makes them very very useful in parties doesn't work either. In parties you'd have one bowmaster, one brawler, one priest(maybe, usually not, depends on the boss) one spearmen(for hb) and the rest NLs (2/3)
In perfect parties spearmen aren't needed(people hp wash'd to the point they don't need hb to survive far away attacks from ht/pb) and priest aren't needed (since people just use all cure's and don't fuck up and die)
This meant in most actual parties you'd have 1 bm(for SE) 1 bralwer (for his weapon attack speed skill) and 4 night lord's. 

But now you want to make SE pointless, and due to coding brawler is pointless, so everyone just make a nightlord and just nightlord everything. nightlord nightlord nightlord. 


But what i wanted to say the most, is that the balance in this game is already near perfect. I've played all the classes, and i switch my main all the time, and i have a deep understanding of all of them. They all have strengths and weakness's, (except brawler, sorry dude, your skills don't work) And the balance of the game is nearly perfect as is. Some people might not think so, because 'eh mages and bandit's can't join boss parties, #imbalance' but thats not true about how real balance works. mages have it super easy, bandit's have incredible mobbing strength's, (though bandit's should probably get a little bit of something in 3rd job to be fairer), so ofcourse when it comes to optimizing dps the classes who trade easier/better mobbing for dps aren't gonna get chosen for things that require high dps. 

It's the nature of the game, and the nature of balance. The only real issues that come along are when a class has it all, has good mobbing and good dps (or, in one classes case, the BEST mobbing, and the BEST dps, cough cough) 
and doesn't have to give up anything for their strengths.
Like for instance, if we gave mage a skill that did a lot of dps, then they'd have no weakness's. Instead trading incredible mobbing and easy damage for single target dps, they'd trade nothing for both. 


However, if you want to go totalitarian on us and force most classes to be useful to bosses, do it the brawler way. Give classes party buffs that make them useful to the boss raids, instead of trying to take away their weakeness's.


OR in the bowmaster's case, THEIR STRENGTHS. 

I give up

why?  Please explain to me how they are the worst 1st job, if you can just use summersault and str /knucle build till 30 to go through it very quickly.

I understand you are saying 2cd job is bad because the mobbing skill is slow, and i'll give you that. But i'd still like to see how you can compare 2cd job mobbing skill to 2cd job non mobbing skill wth less % and say it's just straight up better to be an assasin. I think you are comparing extremely funded assasin to extremely/decently funded gunslinger.
THEN it's true, yes. But that has NOTHING to do with class, and EVERYTHING to do with the assasin's DAMAGE FORMULA.

The class isn't broken, the way claw's calculate damage is, then. Which is a fine argument and debate to have, but a different one. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that topic, for sure.

I'll even grant you 3rd job is pretty hard too, which it is. We agree that 3rd job gunslinger is hard comapred to most other classes (except maybe i/l ?), but i don't agree it's so weak you it makes up for the fact in 4th job gives them a mage ultimate +  the highest single target dps in the game. 

If you think it does, please explain to me why. 

I don't think i'm asking unfair questions, or coming from a biased understanding, but if i am, please enlighten.

I'll start off by saying that I really don't care about my damage all that much or whether or not everyone is on a level playing field. I made my DK simply because there was a lack of HB on the server at the time and because I wanted to be helpful towards all the lovely people here. I've now finished reading through each post here and everyone (for the most part) brings up some valid points. I just really don't see the point of these skill changes. First off they are a lot of work for little payoff and second because we all choose this server for it's nostalgic low-rate blast from the past sort of feel. I play v62 because I like the way it is, of course I welcome small quality of life updates like new hairs/faces but this seems a little overboard. If you want to be extremely power and have a high DPS play a NL or a corsair, and if you want to be supportive play a DK or a bishop. There are public server out there that have these updates so if you really want them why not just go there? That wasnt meant to sound rude it just seems like Noble is veering off from it's original gms-like lowrate v62 ways.